Category: Allgemein

Transcript video Westart – TV Feature on Project

Ein Text von ⇥ Katharina Bosse

Interview with Prof. Katharina Bosse, FH Bielefeld, director of the international Art & Science “Thingstätte-Project” for the TV Feature “Westart”. The Interview was filmed on the site of the “Freilichtbühne Mülheim an der Ruhr”, built as a Thingstätte by the Nazis in 1936.

Thingstaetten Westart TV Feature on Project en

Would we perceive a concert differently if we knew it was taking place on a former Nazi site? That’s an exciting question: Grönemeyer at the “Waldbühne”, for example.

This is a so-called “Thingstätte”, built by the Nazis, but never really used for cultural purposes. A large-scale cultural project, including a book of photographs, takes a closer look at these strange and problematic places, of which there are several in Western Germany.

When superstars give huge concerts on the Waldbühne in Berlin, or “Winnetou” and “Old Shatterhand” play war in Bad Segeberg, most spectators don’t know who once created these stages. 

Quote of Goebbels: “In hundreds of years, people will still be able to read from these steep stones, the creative power of our time.”

 Approximately 60 so-called “Thingstätten” were built by the National Socialists between 1933 and 1936 as propaganda meeting places. And they still exist today, like the open-air stage in Mülheim on Ruhr. Completed in 1935 and opened with Shakespeare’s A Midsummer Night’s Dream, it served the Nazis as a pathetic backdrop for staging Volksgemeinschaft.

Katharina Bosse: The idea was to build a meeting place in the open air that was supposed to tie in with a kind of imaginary Teutonism. Hence the name “Thingstätte”.

Photographer Katharina Bosse wants to explore these problematic sites anew, together with others. For her Thingstätten project, she brought together photographers, filmmakers, and scientists. In their works, they take a critical look at the timelessness of this place burdened by history.

Katharina Bosse: What interested me was the question of national identity, which has taken on a whole new meaning in the last ten years. I think it’s socially important to look at it from an artistic perspective. The Thing sites are so interesting for us because they are everywhere.

Even in small communities, like Herchen an der Sieg. Almost like a fairy tale, enchanted in the forest, lies the former Nazi cult site. Katharina Bosse brought the American video artist Doug Fitch to this place. Together with students from Herchen, he created a cultic performance about a Tibetan deity to breathe new energy into the former “non-place”.

Katharina Bosse: “The people we came into contact with there, a teacher from the school and the students, learned about the past of the place. It confirms local volunteers, who work very hard for the recognition and proper information of its problematic history.

Bosse wants to encourage the local people to deal with the past. In this project by artist Rebecca Hackemann, passers-by can look back through giant mobile binoculars.

Franz Kluwe, Herchen: There are no written records (in the town’s archive). We found documents from the Napoleonic period en masse, but nothing from the time of the Third Reich. Gone – as it has never existed, but of course, it has.

The catalog is only one pillar of Katharina Bosse’s large-scale project. On a research page on the Internet, everyone is called upon to actively participate, to discover new Thing sites.

Katharina Bosse: The basic question is, what does it mean to me today when I look at the past? That is, I always have this overlapping of different times in the entire project and the question is, how do I bring these overlays together?

Artistically, perhaps like this: Bosse projected historical photographs onto the stones of the Thing site at Vogelsang Castle, like the original faces of these sculptures destroyed in the war. The present meets the past.

Yamantaka, Killer of Death, Reconsecrates Herchen Thingstätte

Ein Text von ⇥ Doug Fitch

My work ranges from architecture and opera to visual and edible art. A childhood interest in the art of puppetry led my family to found a company that toured puppet shows throughout New England. This fascination for making “little worlds” or “parallel universes” has fueled my work in opera and concert-theater. From age 4, I took up the violin and started dance training at age 8. Later in life, I took up boxing, circus and flying trapeze. I believe this training in different movement genres has been critical to the way I shape stories as a director. 2009, I co-founded Giants Are Small, a company that produced groundbreaking work for the New York Philharmonic including the Grand Macabre, the Cunning Little Vixen and Petrushka. We developed a technique called “live animation” wherein puppeteers brought small dioramas to life, while cameras filmed and simultaneously projected these worlds over the orchestra. I am compelled by transformations on stage. I storyboard my designs, seeing them as a choreography of space and objects. The Boston Globe described my work like this: “a world where anything can become anything else, where absurd juxtapositions surprise and delight, where deep seriousness about art is infused with an equally profound sense of play.”

bosse_thingstaetten_book_artproject_fitch

In 2000, I met Katharina Bosse, who was commissioned by NEST Magazine to photograph an elaborate home movie theater I had designed for a wealthy client in Wisconsin. The room felt like a subterranean forest where sheep grazed in a glen with reclining shrubs you could sit on. The sheep had necks that would slide forward to accommodate beverages, and the whole environment was programmed to deploy five different sunsets, leading to the movie of your choice.

I loved the way Katharina bridged my vision of the project with her own. She made it feel like people actually lived there, which, of course, they did—but most design magazines would rather preserve a more precious illusion of the perfect artifice!

So years later, when she asked me to participate in the Thingstätten project I was immediately intrigued. It seemed like a perfect way to make the image of a theatrical moment suggest a whole story that viewers could make up for themselves. In the way she brought a sense of reality to my theater, I wanted to bring theater into a context of reality, in this case one that had a very painful history to reckon with.

It was Katharina’s remarkable idea to assemble a group of artists to take on the dark history of these Nazi meeting forums and, by making a new visual image for them, to allow those who have been affected by their negative histories to see a chance for imbuing them with new meaning. Is it possible to reincarnate the spirit of a place?

I had just created a piece of theater called How Did We …?, a contemporary story about Millenials, which ended with a multi-armed Buddhist god called Yamantaka, also known as the conqueror—or killer—of death. It is a very powerful character because “terminating death” means overcoming the relentless cycle of rebirth and constant wandering. Yamantaka, then, represents the goal of the journey toward enlightenment: by “awakening” beyond the realm of death. I wondered if we could bring around a degree of cathartic transformation in the region by offering a new image of the local Thingstätte. I wanted to “kill” its power of being solely a symbol of Nazi strength, by bringing to life a deity from an entirely different culture—one so opposite of anything that represented the Third Reich that I hoped it could invite new ways to see the place—and therefore to offer an idea of what it could become.

It was very cold on the day we decided to shoot. I had not brought enough dancers to wear the costumes but every person we approached immediately wanted to participate. We had a propane heater inside the Thingstätte, a smoke machine and some theatrical lights. We had to keep wrapping everyone in blankets before each shoot. It was a difficult shoot that brought us together. In the end, I believe we were all transformed by being there. It really felt like we had done something useful, in the way that only art can be an agent for certain kinds of change. It felt like we had changed the nature of the story of this town. Had we terminated its negative legacy? Perhaps not, but we had officially offered an alternative to the death cult narrative pervading its recent history.

Doug Fitch

Director, choreography, puppet: Doug Fitch
Dancers: Annika Harder, Irantzu Schneider, Isabel Martin Perez, Anna-Lena Christmann, Janika Hampl, Maya Dolata
Still photography and video: Katharina Bosse, Jan Merlin Friedrich, Hendrik Lüders, Kuno Seltmann
Director’s assistant: Lutz Rödig
Production: Katharina Bosse, Franz Kluwe (Herchen), Nassim Rad (Assistant)
Special thanks to: Franz Kluwe, Holger Zimmermann,
Bodelschwingh Gymnasium Herchen, Bürger- und
Verschönerungsverein Herchen,

FH Bielefeld (HSBI),
Fachbereich Gestaltung

Watch also: Art Video by Kuno Seltmann

Short informations about the video Waldbühne Berlin – Interview about history under National Socialism

Ein Text von ⇥ Katharina Bosse

Interview with Dr. Hans-Dieter Nägelke, Director of the Architekturmuseum of the TU Berlin about the estate of the architect Werner March and the history of the Waldbühne in Berlin, which was built as a Thingstätte under National Socialism.

This video is part of the interdisciplinary and international art and science project “Thingstätten”. It is committed to the culture of remembrance and a reappraisal of the buildings integrated into everyday life or almost forgotten, erected as propagandistic open-air stages of the Nazi era, and asks about the significance of this past for the present.

Transcript video Northeim – Interview about the history and contemporary use of the Nazi built open air theater

Ein Text von ⇥ Katharina Bosse

Interview with Günther Spannaus, Bookseller in Northeim, 2014 about the history of the “Waldbühne” as a “Weihestätte” built by the Nazis in 1936.

My name is Günther Spannaus, I am a native of Northeim, born in 1927, and I experienced the construction period and the meetings on the open-air stage here, as a child. I grew up and went to school here.

What role did the Thing movement play in the construction of the stage?

Open-air stages were supposed to host large mass spectacles. Such stages were built outside either in a stone setting, a large quarry, or in a forest with nature around it, because of the Germanic Myths. This was all ideologically based. The whole National Socialism was founded on a pseudo-religious idea.

In 1936, there were no toilet carts yet, so they dug a long pit in a small valley behind the Thingstätte and built a very long wooden box with holes over it to make very primitive little toilet compartments out of spruce trunks nailed together. I still remember I was only 9 years old at the time, that we always went here for coffee on Sunday mornings. Then my father and an acquaintance would laugh themselves silly and say “now imagine how they all squat next to each other”.

The big trees that are still standing here are the original trees. These ceremonial plays that were performed here, you have to read through them, they are boring. They are always chanted in chorus, and that only worked through the masses. You can do that once, but for a second or third time, you couldn’t get the people to come here.

Such large events were popular at that time, for example, the Reichsparteitag and so on. So this was just a small party congress.

To collect all organizations and everything that preceded them within a very short time and to unite them, whether they wanted or not,  under the big Nazi blanket was critical to gain control. In this course, also the Thing movement arose.

Here is a poster of the NSKOV Congress.

Transcript video Verden – Interview about the history and contemporary use of the Sachsenhain built by the Nazis

Ein Text von ⇥ Katharina Bosse

Interview with Dirk Grieger, Evangelical Youth Education Center Sachsenhain in Verden, 2014 about the history of the “Saxon Grove” as a “Thingstätte” built by the Nazis in 1935.

Hello, my name is Dirk Grieger, I am the director of the building behind me. We are here in the evangelical youth education center Sachsenhain in Verden, in beautiful Lower Saxony. I look after the groups that come to stay with us. The evangelical youth center has existed since 1950 and has been owned by the evangelical church ever since. We mainly do youth work, youth education work and we are there for guests who do their seminars here.

We know about the history since the Nazi era. The National Socialists put together these buildings here that you see behind and to the left and the right of me. These are old Lower Saxon houses.

Interesting and original is our stone circuit. On our site, 12 hectares, we have a 1.2 kilometer long circular path that has been created with erratic blocks from the area here. There are supposed to be 4500 pieces (I haven’t counted them yet). And the 4500 are exactly the number of Saxons that Charlemagne is said to have executed here. It is known today that this was not the historic site, but it was assumed so. And this site, with the 4500 stones, holds a large open space, which at that time was intended by the National Socialist youth and the National Socialists as a meeting place. On this stone path, we speak today of the meditation path, we have rededicated the stones. We changed some stones with inscriptions from the Bible, and we also rededicated our house. On the house behind me, you can still see a wooden inscription on the beam, which refers to the fact that we should build ourselves up as living stones to the house of God, and that theme resonates with us. When I walk around the path with guests, we try to let these stones come alive and let them speak to us. The stones remind us to be attentive – and it has something. Once you walk around the path, maybe alone, and get a little meditative, you’re in a very unusual place here.

No one, I think, wants to follow in the footsteps of the Nazi past. Above all, we in the church are trying to live with history and to come to terms with history, especially with young people. And that’s why there’s a lot of interest here in exploring and feeling out the historical roots and talking critically about them, and also allowing the groups to ask us questions. The questions came very often and that’s why we dealt with the history quite offensively, also on the boards here on the site. We say: this has happened and we are now responsible for ensuring that it does not happen again. We also do a lot of educational work that also wants history not to repeat itself. A minority thought “no, let’s not publish this, we want to keep it a bit more undercover”, but the vast majority was on our side: to say we live in, with, and through history.

Transcript video Bergen – Interview about the history and contemporary use of the Nazi built open air theater

Ein Text von ⇥ Katharina Bosse

Interview with Uwe Hinz, Bergen auf Rügen, 2014 about the history of the “Freilichtbühne” on the Rugard as a “Thingstätte” built by the Nazis in 1935.

Welcome Bergen on Rügen, here on the Rugard, which is about 93 meters above sea level at this point. My name is Uwe Hinz. I have been occupied for years with the history not only of Bergen but also with the European history and I like to introduce this history to people. I would like to take you with me on a journey that is certainly not very easy.

We are sitting here in the place that is a monument. In the past, it was called a hero’s monument and today incorrigibles call it a war memorial. This monument is built in the form of a Thingstätte. Now many will ask “what is a Thingstätte?”. A Thingstätte is in the old Germanic sense a meeting place, at which right was spoken.

Here we have the layout of the Thingstätte: A Bergen company had to drive earth here to create the terraces, you see here the squares, and here is the roundel. Behind it, there was later the Mallon monument. You can see here the wide, rugged incisions of the Rügen land with the “Botten” landscapes and the open sea. Here you can see the parades, for example from the first of May 1933. The procession led across the street to the Thingstätte, as a place of assembly and celebration of the National Socialists, photographed on May 1, 1933.

In 1918, after the end of the First World War, the people who died, the citizens of Bergen, were to be remembered. 206 Bergen citizens fell here in Europe for an unfortunate idea and somewhere their graves are scattered where they can no longer be found. They wanted to create a grove here as a place of remembrance.

 In 1933, the National Socialists came to power. They had a strong need to promote the Germanic cult. We have here the old, historic castle wall. In the spirit of National Socialism, the folklorist Alfred Haas described the Thingstätte as a Germanic site in a treatise.  This was of course something very positive for the National Socialists and so they extended the axis from the castle wall,  which was in their interpretation Germanic, over to this monument, and towards the Thingstätte.

The Thingstätte was inaugurated on May 25, 1935, by presenting the play  “to the holy fatherland”. But it seems that this place was never really appreciated because already in 1936 the city complained that the site was weedy.

It is also interesting that in 1938 a Hitler march took place here, from this Mallon monument in Bergen to Nuremberg to Adolf Hitler’s party congress. 43 flags, which were consecrated in this monument, were carried. 900 kilometers, in 43 days, to Nuremberg. When the era of the National Socialists ended with the end of the Second World War, this monument was destroyed by the National Socialists themselves. There are contradictory recounts. Some say that this monument was blown up, others say that it was only set on fire. One thing is for sure, they found charred remains of flags, honorary daggers, etc. and they may have found the bones of Hans Mallon, who was held up as a myth until then.

Transcript video Bad Segeberg – history and contemporary use of the open air theater built by the Nazis

Ein Text von ⇥ Katharina Bosse

Interview 2014 about the history of the “Freilichtbühne am Kalkberg” as a “Feierstätte” built by the Nazis in 1937.

My name is Claudia Picher.
My name is Dipl. Ing. Peter Zastrow.
My name is Ekkehard Bartsch.

Claudia Picher: I work as a falconer and I am here at the Karl May Festival for the fourth year in a row.

Peter Zastrow: I was a vocational school teacher here in Bad Segeberg and have been involved with the history of Bad Segeberg for over 20 years.

Ekkehard Bartsch: I am a bookseller by profession and have been involved with the Karl May Festival here in Bad Segeberg for over 30 years. 

Peter Zastrow: The open-air theater itself has a very interesting history because it used to be a quarry. For over a thousand years, gypsum was mined here to build up the cities of Hamburg or the great cities in northern Europe with it. 

In 1933, the city fathers wrote to the Reich Theater Ministry in Berlin asking if a Thingplatz could not be financed and built. Thus came the Berlin architect Professor Doctor Schaller, who presented a plan for 20,000 people. In all of Germany 400 Thingstätte were to be built, in Schleswig-Holstein alone, eight were planned. The people of Segeberg wanted to be early adopters, so in May 1934, although the planning had not yet been completed, the groundbreaking ceremony was held at great expense. In September 1934, things got going. The plan was that the Reich Labor Service would be involved. A maximum of 120 people were employed. The Thingplatz was built, with interruptions, from 1934 to 1937. 

After the war, Professor Schaller settled in Cologne and was able to design new churches there, since the Catholic Church had a new liturgy. And this followed the same principle: the leader, that was the pulpit and the memorial the altar. In the roundels of the ancient amphitheaters, one could accommodate a great many people and they wanted to do the same here. For every 150,000 inhabitants, be they counties or cities, the seats should hold 3,000 to 10,000 visitors for a festive gathering, and 5,000 to 20,000 visitors for rallies.

Ekkehard Bartsch: In Nazi Germany, the attitude towards the author Karl May was ambivalent. On the one hand, they tried to promote everything that had to do with heroes and hero-worship. On the other hand, there were also many things in Karl May’s writings that went ideologically against the grain, especially the pacifist thoughts. Also, the Christian tendency of his books. All this did not suit them and there were various demands, in 1933 and 1934, to ban Karl May and to have his books burned as well. This did not happen because leading representatives of the Nazi regime stood up for Karl May, especially the Minister of Culture Schemm in Bavaria. And when it turned out that Hitler himself liked to read Karl May, this was of course an alibi to say that Karl May must stay.Claudia Picher: This is my fourth year in a row here at the Karl-May-Festival in Bad Segeberg. My job is to work with the birds of prey and it’s different every year because every year someone else is in the play. Usually “Winnetou”’s eagle is there, like this year Cliff. Cliff is an American bald eagle, 15 years old, a male with a bodyweight of three kilograms and a wingspan of two meters. Cliff is “Winnetou”’s eagle again this year, but this time he lands on “Winnetou”’s hand for the first time and gets to show him how best to cope with his current living situation. “Winnetou” finds himself in a predicament and tries to ask his horse and his eagle for advice.